Crushing update on Cornelio and I can’t blame the kid. Butera and Toboni just completely blew the handling of this situation. They’re so obsessed with these 24 hour callups and reliever churning that they threw him into a foreign scenario for his rookie debut when there were better arms fresh just bc they were fixated on sending him down today to free up a spot. Ironic how the flexible use of optioned relievers actually seems to have boxed them in last night strategy wise.
I hope I’ve misread the situation somehow and someone can explain to me why but this is how it looks to me. First time in the Toboni/Kilambi/Butera era that I can wholeheartedly use the word “disappointed”.
He could’ve gotten no hits and closed out the game and he would’ve been demoted anyway. Toboni and crew are heavily scripting the call ups of these guys, but would rather have them in AAA continuing to start games in significantly less intense environments than live games. Once you get past the idea that the intent isn’t to win games this season, you can see that Littel and Mikolas are here to get through the bulk of games. They’re not going to be replaced until the most they can offer is two innings. They could give us 5 or 6 ugly innings, but as long as it’s 5 or 6, doesn’t matter if they’re ugly or not.
what I’m saying is is that I don’t believe that Cornelio was the best available arm for that situation, and that Butera knew that as well, but decided to use him anyway because they already made the decision to churn him for the day. I see no other reason why he would play in that high leverage of a scenario. Lord hasn’t pitched since Monday, Beeter hasn’t pitched since Tuesday, why not use one of them? All three are righties so it’s not a matchup question.
So the call lost us the game AND torched the confidence (temporarily, I’m sure, but still) of a young pitcher for no reason. That’s what I’m upset about.
No I understand and it’s frustrating. From a consumer perspective, it’s not exactly good product. But I think the difference is they don’t care they lost the game.
Scripted appearance, didn’t burn a bullpen arm, got the guy live ABs against major leaguers, got him back down to AAA on a starter schedule. Start him, and he burns out by the 3rd inning, that’s easily 2 or 3 more arms you have to send out there.
We’re gonna see that pattern a lot until at least the deadline, and maybe after (unless they decide to transition into giving these guys starts instead of bulk relief). Could we have won the game if we sent Lord out there? Probably; I’d be willing to say most definitely. What difference does that win make? We’re not making the playoffs anyway. It sounds better to fans to say “we won 70” instead of “we won 65.” I’m willing to wager that for Toboni and Butera, they both mean the same: nothing.
I think you’re bang on, I’m just venting here because I can’t grill Butera directly. What’s the saying about losing the forest for the trees or something? We threw a game that, sure, didn’t really matter just to keep two of our higher-leverage arms fresher than fresh for…potentially helping us win games this weekend. And Cornelio didn’t get put off his throwing schedule I guess. But it’s just such a minuscule boost that doesn’t outweigh the possible consequences to me.
You're absolutely right, natsclop. They have a master plan, and they mean to stick to it. Supposedly, this has been shared with the players, especially the ones who are shuttling back and forth. Therefore, like Bill S, I don't see why Cornelio appeared to have been caught off guard when told he was returning to AAA. Or perhaps his distress wasn't caused by being optioned so quickly; it may have been simply because his long-looked-forward-to debut was more a nightmare than a dream come true. Hopefully his next MLB outing will be much more successful.
I think it’s to do with Mark’s wording. I read it as the source of the distress being the performance itself, not the demotion. Butera’s quotes seem to indicate that the subliminal message passed along was “you were going back down regardless, so don’t beat yourself up too much.”
I believe Cornelio had been on a starters schedule in AAA so maybe they thought he wouldn’t be available for a few days anyway. Meanwhile they wanted the additional righty for today’s game against a lefty. I just don’t understand why Cornelio seems to have been caught by surprise by the immediate return to AAA.
It's also worth mentioning that the Nationals have been one of the worst hitting teams in the majors with RISP in the middle innings (3rd through 6th). Those plate appearances are going to Nunez, Ruiz, Garcia, and House. I know we can debate Cornelio's role last night, but the Nationals had chances to get him a couple more runs and a bigger lead to protect.
Schultz sorta a big deal (not meaning his 6’ 10” height) in Chicagoland (think Lucas Giolito); long anticipated debut earlier this year; born in nearby Naperville (hometown also of all time hoops great Candace Parker). Sculutz committed to power Vanderbilt before deciding to go pro instead. Crowd will be amped to see him, so be forewarned
Toboni & co are creating a new normal, a team with functionally a lot more than 26 players. It’s going to take some time to get used to, for fans but especially for players because “getting sent down” is so stigmatized in the culture of baseball.
Part of the Riley Cornelio story is the contrast with Richie, the Braves rookie who handled his first start the day before with so much more aplomb. He gets taken deep on the first pitch, smiles ruefully, and pitches seven innings of one-run ball after that. I know in my mind I had hopes for something similarly positive for Riley, and couldn’t help but feel let down that our guy couldn’t replicate what their guy did.
I also personally have my concerns for Ritchie. I’m glad for him that his debut was strong, but if the Braves intend to need him to keep their playoff run alive and replace the aging/less good arms the likes of Reynaldo Lopez and Bryce Elder in their staff, that is a lot of pressure to put on a rookie. I’m guessing the Braves hope he is more Nolan McLean than Jonah Tong or Brandon Sproat, we all saw what happened to the Mets when they tried to escape their collapse through rookie starts.
Yep, of course. Someone with more expertise should correct me where I’m wrong, and there’s nuances… but the gist is that for three years, each player can go back and forth 5 times, with a couple weeks in between call-ups. So if you have 5 good players in AAA, and you call them up for 2 games each, that’s 50 games they can get into. The following year they can do the same thing. If you have 10 good players, they can impact 100 games…
And we're underway on a sunny-but-windy, 49-degree Saturday afternoon in Chicago. Both teams are wearing the same uniforms from last night, which is not exactly an aesthetically pleasing matchup in my humble opinion.
Really Nationals TV is not better then MASN it's worse and tedious no real analysis and replays are a mess and these pre and post periods are worthless
Two runners in scoring position. No outs. Top of the order coming up. We get nothing. This is the non-clutch hitting that has frustrated me this season. How do we not score there? Wood just needs to lift a fly ball to score Nuñez.
Great read, Mark!
Crushing update on Cornelio and I can’t blame the kid. Butera and Toboni just completely blew the handling of this situation. They’re so obsessed with these 24 hour callups and reliever churning that they threw him into a foreign scenario for his rookie debut when there were better arms fresh just bc they were fixated on sending him down today to free up a spot. Ironic how the flexible use of optioned relievers actually seems to have boxed them in last night strategy wise.
I hope I’ve misread the situation somehow and someone can explain to me why but this is how it looks to me. First time in the Toboni/Kilambi/Butera era that I can wholeheartedly use the word “disappointed”.
He could’ve gotten no hits and closed out the game and he would’ve been demoted anyway. Toboni and crew are heavily scripting the call ups of these guys, but would rather have them in AAA continuing to start games in significantly less intense environments than live games. Once you get past the idea that the intent isn’t to win games this season, you can see that Littel and Mikolas are here to get through the bulk of games. They’re not going to be replaced until the most they can offer is two innings. They could give us 5 or 6 ugly innings, but as long as it’s 5 or 6, doesn’t matter if they’re ugly or not.
what I’m saying is is that I don’t believe that Cornelio was the best available arm for that situation, and that Butera knew that as well, but decided to use him anyway because they already made the decision to churn him for the day. I see no other reason why he would play in that high leverage of a scenario. Lord hasn’t pitched since Monday, Beeter hasn’t pitched since Tuesday, why not use one of them? All three are righties so it’s not a matchup question.
So the call lost us the game AND torched the confidence (temporarily, I’m sure, but still) of a young pitcher for no reason. That’s what I’m upset about.
No I understand and it’s frustrating. From a consumer perspective, it’s not exactly good product. But I think the difference is they don’t care they lost the game.
Scripted appearance, didn’t burn a bullpen arm, got the guy live ABs against major leaguers, got him back down to AAA on a starter schedule. Start him, and he burns out by the 3rd inning, that’s easily 2 or 3 more arms you have to send out there.
We’re gonna see that pattern a lot until at least the deadline, and maybe after (unless they decide to transition into giving these guys starts instead of bulk relief). Could we have won the game if we sent Lord out there? Probably; I’d be willing to say most definitely. What difference does that win make? We’re not making the playoffs anyway. It sounds better to fans to say “we won 70” instead of “we won 65.” I’m willing to wager that for Toboni and Butera, they both mean the same: nothing.
I think you’re bang on, I’m just venting here because I can’t grill Butera directly. What’s the saying about losing the forest for the trees or something? We threw a game that, sure, didn’t really matter just to keep two of our higher-leverage arms fresher than fresh for…potentially helping us win games this weekend. And Cornelio didn’t get put off his throwing schedule I guess. But it’s just such a minuscule boost that doesn’t outweigh the possible consequences to me.
You're absolutely right, natsclop. They have a master plan, and they mean to stick to it. Supposedly, this has been shared with the players, especially the ones who are shuttling back and forth. Therefore, like Bill S, I don't see why Cornelio appeared to have been caught off guard when told he was returning to AAA. Or perhaps his distress wasn't caused by being optioned so quickly; it may have been simply because his long-looked-forward-to debut was more a nightmare than a dream come true. Hopefully his next MLB outing will be much more successful.
I think it’s to do with Mark’s wording. I read it as the source of the distress being the performance itself, not the demotion. Butera’s quotes seem to indicate that the subliminal message passed along was “you were going back down regardless, so don’t beat yourself up too much.”
I believe Cornelio had been on a starters schedule in AAA so maybe they thought he wouldn’t be available for a few days anyway. Meanwhile they wanted the additional righty for today’s game against a lefty. I just don’t understand why Cornelio seems to have been caught by surprise by the immediate return to AAA.
It's also worth mentioning that the Nationals have been one of the worst hitting teams in the majors with RISP in the middle innings (3rd through 6th). Those plate appearances are going to Nunez, Ruiz, Garcia, and House. I know we can debate Cornelio's role last night, but the Nationals had chances to get him a couple more runs and a bigger lead to protect.
Schultz sorta a big deal (not meaning his 6’ 10” height) in Chicagoland (think Lucas Giolito); long anticipated debut earlier this year; born in nearby Naperville (hometown also of all time hoops great Candace Parker). Sculutz committed to power Vanderbilt before deciding to go pro instead. Crowd will be amped to see him, so be forewarned
Don't teams have to carry 13 pitchers until August 31st?
No. The MAXIMUM number of pitchers they can carry is 13.
Funny how things change over time... the 1970 Orioles used just twelve pitchers over the entire season.
https://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/BAL/1970.shtml
In 1971 they had 4, 20 game winners. I'm pretty sure we are never going to see that again either.
Samsonite! I was way off. Appreciate the correction.
Had no idea Mead could play second. Probably mentioned when he was acquired but I had him as a 1st base/ outfield type.
He could also play 3rd.
Toboni & co are creating a new normal, a team with functionally a lot more than 26 players. It’s going to take some time to get used to, for fans but especially for players because “getting sent down” is so stigmatized in the culture of baseball.
Part of the Riley Cornelio story is the contrast with Richie, the Braves rookie who handled his first start the day before with so much more aplomb. He gets taken deep on the first pitch, smiles ruefully, and pitches seven innings of one-run ball after that. I know in my mind I had hopes for something similarly positive for Riley, and couldn’t help but feel let down that our guy couldn’t replicate what their guy did.
I also personally have my concerns for Ritchie. I’m glad for him that his debut was strong, but if the Braves intend to need him to keep their playoff run alive and replace the aging/less good arms the likes of Reynaldo Lopez and Bryce Elder in their staff, that is a lot of pressure to put on a rookie. I’m guessing the Braves hope he is more Nolan McLean than Jonah Tong or Brandon Sproat, we all saw what happened to the Mets when they tried to escape their collapse through rookie starts.
Aren’t all these temporary promotion guys going to run out of options pretty soon?
Yep, of course. Someone with more expertise should correct me where I’m wrong, and there’s nuances… but the gist is that for three years, each player can go back and forth 5 times, with a couple weeks in between call-ups. So if you have 5 good players in AAA, and you call them up for 2 games each, that’s 50 games they can get into. The following year they can do the same thing. If you have 10 good players, they can impact 100 games…
And we're underway on a sunny-but-windy, 49-degree Saturday afternoon in Chicago. Both teams are wearing the same uniforms from last night, which is not exactly an aesthetically pleasing matchup in my humble opinion.
In a league where many of the City Connect uniforms are bad, the White Sox version is hideous.
No Charlie and Dave broadcast ?
Not coming in for me either...strange.
And there they are
I'm listening on Sirus.
MLB finally through the switch and they are on mlb.tv
Really Nationals TV is not better then MASN it's worse and tedious no real analysis and replays are a mess and these pre and post periods are worthless
MLB has full control over the broadcast now
Nationals TV with the Charlie and Dave audio selected is my preference.
Brief OMG moment on that popup.
I would think with ABS challenges there should be no more discussions like that with the plate ump, Weimer.
Let's see if Nunez can avoid getting picked off on third today
Two runners in scoring position. No outs. Top of the order coming up. We get nothing. This is the non-clutch hitting that has frustrated me this season. How do we not score there? Wood just needs to lift a fly ball to score Nuñez.
Not gonna be one of those oh fer RISP games again, is it???
Okay James we need a hit here.