So does this mean trash talking can be cause for suspension? Based on Contreras comments to reporters, he wasn't offended by Cade's specific words. He reacted to Cade's trash talking, period.
Suspension for trash talking is the equivalent of the NFL penalizing players for celebrating TDs, turnovers, big plays, etc., IMHO. And the NFL corrected itself by allowing players to express themselves more freely without penalty.
Contreras wasn't the only person who witnessed what Cade said. Even if Contreras is ambivalent about it, people watching may feel differently. Cavalli himself even admitted as much during his statement. We can have a reasonable discussion about the magnitude of the punishment but claiming that the content and broader context of what Cade said is equivalent to trash talking in general is, in my opinion, wrong.
If Contreras doesn't go off, there is no incident and there are no suspensions. My point is, Cade could have said "I like you" and Contreras would have still responded by throwing his helmet, IMHO. Again, Contreras wasn't set off by Cade's specific words. He reacted to Cade's act of talking trash.
That doesn't change what Cade said. Cade wasn't suspended for Contreras' actions. He was suspended for what he said. It's something he shouldn't have said to a person of color. Maybe it doesn't get any attention if Contreras doesn't fly off the handle, but that's irrelevant. He said it. Everyone knows he said it. He got suspended. Contreras was also suspended for his actions. This all seems fair to me.
As McMerc said intent and impact are not equivilent. It should be, but it isn't. If this were two blokes on the street that would be the end of it. However Cavalli represents the Nationals and the global brand of MLB. Its because his word choice regardless of his intent does have a greater impact. It shouldn't be, but we can't erase the tarnished history that makes it that way. I think he will likely get it reduced based on appeal, but he is going to get something if for nothing else to make an example of that, so that others realize their word choice matters.
I do however think at the same time Contreras needed a bigger punishment. His behavior, being a repeat offender, also impacts MLBs brand in other ways and needs to be reigned in. That was the second time in as many days he was ejected. I dont know if optics played into them getting equal initial punishments, but it needs to be clear that if he puts a toe out line the rest of the season he is getting suspended again.
Hey everyone, consider this an emphatic mandate from me to keep the comments on this and all future articles about this incident respectful. I will be monitoring and will delete anything I consider to be in poor taste or offensive.
MLB didn't want to deal with the blowback from people who are acting outraged by Cavalli's comments, hence...
In light of Mark's request to keep this space respectful, I will refrain from saying what I want to say. So instead, Happy 4th of July! Participation trophies for everyone!
I think, since Contreras is an everyday player and Cavalli pitches once every 5 days, they feel they did mete out, rightly, a harsher penalty.
Not sure, but I remember a few (or many) years back MLB talked about suspending starters for 5 games as a routine punishment, else they don’t really miss any time and it’s not a deterrent.
So, if that’s the thinking - not sure it is - Cavalli would have to get 35 games (since he would only play in 7 of them) to be “equal” to Contreras - and, if that’s correct (again, not sure), then his suspension was 6 more actual games - as it should have been.
Anyway, I’m ready for the weekend and the Pirates now!
So, a player who throws equipment, in anger, at another player receives the same suspension as a player who trash talks? And does a future trash talker get a suspension too.
I get it, MLB wants to punish the two who started the skirmish and to discourage such future actions.
There is no excuse for throwing equipment. Much stiffer punishment for that is deserved.
I expect the Nats to accept Cavalli’s suspension to help make the situation go away as quickly as possible. But they should appeal Mikolas’s suspension and delay it so they’re not without 2 starters at the same time.
Got to appeal that garbage. Didn’t throw at him didn’t throw a punch. Just had words none of which were inappropriate. 7 games for talking trash? Give me a break.
MLB cited his words - which I feel, the Nationals organization feels, and now, MLB feels - and actions - as they said - merited suspension. I think it’s 7 since he’s a pitcher and has to miss a turn in the rotation - less than 5 and it’s meaningless.
He’ll appeal, but I doubt he’ll get anything under 5 games.
It was more than just the words, which, I believe were offensive and inappropriate. So, we have a difference of opinion and there’s nothing wrong with that.
When I watched the melee, it looked like Cavalli was trying to get to Contreras (understandable) and had to be held back - MLB may have more video than I saw - they cited his actions, so I was referring to that….in any case, MLB made the decision and that’s what they said in the announcement.
Wait, "none of which were inapprorpriate?" Seriously? Even Cavalli doesn't agree with that It was his choice of words that were the cause of the suspension, which, in my opinion, was merited. Contreras got his for charging the mound and throwing his helmet, also merited. MLB decide to make them more or less equal, though Cavalli's doesn't hurt his team or him nearly as much so he got off pretty easy in my view.
The suspension was for the bench clearing altercation. Again, it's been reported that Contreras didn't understand the context of Cade's words. He did not know whether they were offensive or not. He responded to Cade's act of trash talking. MLB claims Cade incited the altercation for his trash talking. There was no mention of his specific word content. Many here are projecting the racial content of the words which is their choice but it does not appear to be the basis for the suspension based on MLB's statement.
And for the record, I'm a brown person. I've been on the receiving end of the "go back to where you came from" comments. I was routinely pulled aside by security to be searched not just at TSA checkpoints but anywhere on airport premises in the months following 9/11. I know what it's like to be racially profiled.
In this specific case, what matters are the feelings of the players involved in the incident, IMHO. Again, Contreras does not appear to have taken offense to Cade's specific words. He responded to Cade's actions (trash talking) and responded by tossing his helmet in his direction, an automatic suspension. This is my perspective based on reporting and MLB's official statement.
And again, based on this precedent, I'm wondering if other players will be suspended for simply trash talking in the future.
I hope this does not mess with Cavalli’s head and he comes back ready to pitch like the superstar we all know he is capable of being. He gave such a great explanation and apology. But also, who is going to pitch for Mikolas on Sunday and Cavalli on Monday? Ugh.
What BS…Contreras attempted to physically intimidate Cavalli in the first and then threw his helmet that could have injured someone… that is called assault and battery. Contreras has a history of taunting opponents. I hope Cade appeals and the union steps up. All the internet trolls claiming racism and offensive demeaning language have never heard the Latino players throwing derogatory insults in Spanish or native dialects that the suits NYC MLB officials couldn’t translate even with Google Translate. The MLB caved to social media cancel culture morons.
And for Boston fans to be offended? Larry Bird was one of the greatest trash talkers of all-time (as well as hoops, of course)!! He used the word in question that Cade used the other night to taunt players, many of whom were African American..
But that was a long time ago… and no way even the Larry Bird (one of the best ever) would even go there if he was playing now. He would still talk trash as would MJ, Gary Payton, etc…
I will pushback slightly. Larry wanted to get under people’s skin. He may use a different choice of words today but I think he would find something else that would rattle an opponent to get him off his game.
Larry was no choir boy on the court. He wanted to kick your butt. 🙂
I see it the same way, different words. He would push every button and would do it mercilessly. I think I saw behind scenes (off court) with him trash talking other players (younger, maybe rookies)…. Wasn’t just what we saw on the court. Here is one story from Norm Nixon…
Nats should appeal, stretching out his starts so that his suspension begins on the 12th, after he's pitched against the Astros and the Yankees. If I figure it correctly, then with the All-Star break, he'll be sitting out for 2 days.
It is a 7 game suspension so off days do not count. I believe a player has 24 hours to appeal so no one team can time these things for maximum competitive advantage.
It’s so nice that most the white shirtless troglodytes In the upper deck have chimed in on this Cavalli issue, poo-pooing what he said and did. But I would like to know what the English-as-a-first-language African-American players on the team have to say about it and the way Cavalli handled it. He has expressed regret for what he said, pleading ignorance, etc. But I haven’t read anywhere that he has said, “ I’m sorry for calling you boy, Wilsson.” When sh** like that comes out of your mouth, It’s your obligation as a man to eat your words.
Cavalli is from Oklahoma. And there was a little something back in 1921 called the ‘Tulsa Race Massacre’. With that history so close to home, how can anyone from Oklahoma play dumb about white on Black abuse, verbal or otherwise? We all know that the red/Trumpite states have undertaken to rewrite Black history. Did they give the Tulsa Race Massacre it’s due in Cavalli‘s Oklahoma history classes??
The issue here is not the trash talking; it’s not even the fight. The issue was directing a racist epithet at a Black player.
I disagree strongly with the Cavalli and Mikolas suspensions. But I can only fight one war at a time and I am already outraged regarding the red card the USMNT received last night. Soccer's handling of red cards and MLBs handling of suspensions seem completely arbitrary and inconsistent to me at least, but maybe I am a little biased.
Interesting the punishments when looking at the plays in real time were not as severe. Cavalli wasn’t ejected and the red card came out after looking at the play in super slow motion
So does this mean trash talking can be cause for suspension? Based on Contreras comments to reporters, he wasn't offended by Cade's specific words. He reacted to Cade's trash talking, period.
Suspension for trash talking is the equivalent of the NFL penalizing players for celebrating TDs, turnovers, big plays, etc., IMHO. And the NFL corrected itself by allowing players to express themselves more freely without penalty.
Contreras wasn't the only person who witnessed what Cade said. Even if Contreras is ambivalent about it, people watching may feel differently. Cavalli himself even admitted as much during his statement. We can have a reasonable discussion about the magnitude of the punishment but claiming that the content and broader context of what Cade said is equivalent to trash talking in general is, in my opinion, wrong.
If Contreras doesn't go off, there is no incident and there are no suspensions. My point is, Cade could have said "I like you" and Contreras would have still responded by throwing his helmet, IMHO. Again, Contreras wasn't set off by Cade's specific words. He reacted to Cade's act of talking trash.
That doesn't change what Cade said. Cade wasn't suspended for Contreras' actions. He was suspended for what he said. It's something he shouldn't have said to a person of color. Maybe it doesn't get any attention if Contreras doesn't fly off the handle, but that's irrelevant. He said it. Everyone knows he said it. He got suspended. Contreras was also suspended for his actions. This all seems fair to me.
It’s quite possible he would have been in trouble even if Contreras didn’t react. Everyone heard what he said, and what he said wasn’t okay.
Remember…intent ≠ impact.
So Cavalli needed to be suspended even if Contreras wasn't offended, because other people might be?
That's the kind of reasoning they use in the UK: "You're under arrest because you posted something online that may cause offense to other people."
Yes. Because the whole country saw what he said.
That's ridiculous.
Okay.
As McMerc said intent and impact are not equivilent. It should be, but it isn't. If this were two blokes on the street that would be the end of it. However Cavalli represents the Nationals and the global brand of MLB. Its because his word choice regardless of his intent does have a greater impact. It shouldn't be, but we can't erase the tarnished history that makes it that way. I think he will likely get it reduced based on appeal, but he is going to get something if for nothing else to make an example of that, so that others realize their word choice matters.
I do however think at the same time Contreras needed a bigger punishment. His behavior, being a repeat offender, also impacts MLBs brand in other ways and needs to be reigned in. That was the second time in as many days he was ejected. I dont know if optics played into them getting equal initial punishments, but it needs to be clear that if he puts a toe out line the rest of the season he is getting suspended again.
Hey everyone, consider this an emphatic mandate from me to keep the comments on this and all future articles about this incident respectful. I will be monitoring and will delete anything I consider to be in poor taste or offensive.
Thank you, Mark!
Hold on, this is new
The suspension of Cavalli is garbage, he comments respectfully…
MLB didn't want to deal with the blowback from people who are acting outraged by Cavalli's comments, hence...
In light of Mark's request to keep this space respectful, I will refrain from saying what I want to say. So instead, Happy 4th of July! Participation trophies for everyone!
Contreras gets suspended for 7 days for charging the mound, instigating a brawl, and throwing his helmet.
Cavalli gets suspended 7 days for speaking one word.
Yes. Per MLB, the punishments for throwing a helmet at a player and talking trash to a player are equivalent.
I think, since Contreras is an everyday player and Cavalli pitches once every 5 days, they feel they did mete out, rightly, a harsher penalty.
Not sure, but I remember a few (or many) years back MLB talked about suspending starters for 5 games as a routine punishment, else they don’t really miss any time and it’s not a deterrent.
So, if that’s the thinking - not sure it is - Cavalli would have to get 35 games (since he would only play in 7 of them) to be “equal” to Contreras - and, if that’s correct (again, not sure), then his suspension was 6 more actual games - as it should have been.
Anyway, I’m ready for the weekend and the Pirates now!
It does make a difference financially. Cavalli misses one start but he still fortiets 7 days pay roughly $37,000. Contreras forfiets almost $800,000
Wow, just … wow
So, a player who throws equipment, in anger, at another player receives the same suspension as a player who trash talks? And does a future trash talker get a suspension too.
I get it, MLB wants to punish the two who started the skirmish and to discourage such future actions.
There is no excuse for throwing equipment. Much stiffer punishment for that is deserved.
I expect the Nats to accept Cavalli’s suspension to help make the situation go away as quickly as possible. But they should appeal Mikolas’s suspension and delay it so they’re not without 2 starters at the same time.
Got to appeal that garbage. Didn’t throw at him didn’t throw a punch. Just had words none of which were inappropriate. 7 games for talking trash? Give me a break.
MLB cited his words - which I feel, the Nationals organization feels, and now, MLB feels - and actions - as they said - merited suspension. I think it’s 7 since he’s a pitcher and has to miss a turn in the rotation - less than 5 and it’s meaningless.
He’ll appeal, but I doubt he’ll get anything under 5 games.
It was more than just the words, which, I believe were offensive and inappropriate. So, we have a difference of opinion and there’s nothing wrong with that.
More than words? What else did Cade do that was offensive?
Your last paragraph?
Uh, do tell.
When I watched the melee, it looked like Cavalli was trying to get to Contreras (understandable) and had to be held back - MLB may have more video than I saw - they cited his actions, so I was referring to that….in any case, MLB made the decision and that’s what they said in the announcement.
Ok, noted.
In the spirit of moving on, I'll withhold a rebuttal (which I'm more than prepared to make) and say let's get back to baseball.
My last statement on the topic.
Wait, "none of which were inapprorpriate?" Seriously? Even Cavalli doesn't agree with that It was his choice of words that were the cause of the suspension, which, in my opinion, was merited. Contreras got his for charging the mound and throwing his helmet, also merited. MLB decide to make them more or less equal, though Cavalli's doesn't hurt his team or him nearly as much so he got off pretty easy in my view.
The suspension was for the bench clearing altercation. Again, it's been reported that Contreras didn't understand the context of Cade's words. He did not know whether they were offensive or not. He responded to Cade's act of trash talking. MLB claims Cade incited the altercation for his trash talking. There was no mention of his specific word content. Many here are projecting the racial content of the words which is their choice but it does not appear to be the basis for the suspension based on MLB's statement.
And for the record, I'm a brown person. I've been on the receiving end of the "go back to where you came from" comments. I was routinely pulled aside by security to be searched not just at TSA checkpoints but anywhere on airport premises in the months following 9/11. I know what it's like to be racially profiled.
In this specific case, what matters are the feelings of the players involved in the incident, IMHO. Again, Contreras does not appear to have taken offense to Cade's specific words. He responded to Cade's actions (trash talking) and responded by tossing his helmet in his direction, an automatic suspension. This is my perspective based on reporting and MLB's official statement.
And again, based on this precedent, I'm wondering if other players will be suspended for simply trash talking in the future.
I hope this does not mess with Cavalli’s head and he comes back ready to pitch like the superstar we all know he is capable of being. He gave such a great explanation and apology. But also, who is going to pitch for Mikolas on Sunday and Cavalli on Monday? Ugh.
If I were to guess they will bring up Perales for one of those starts and possibly stretch out Lord to make the other.
Well at least we have a “grace period” now with the appeals.
Good. Some language can’t be tolerated.
What BS…Contreras attempted to physically intimidate Cavalli in the first and then threw his helmet that could have injured someone… that is called assault and battery. Contreras has a history of taunting opponents. I hope Cade appeals and the union steps up. All the internet trolls claiming racism and offensive demeaning language have never heard the Latino players throwing derogatory insults in Spanish or native dialects that the suits NYC MLB officials couldn’t translate even with Google Translate. The MLB caved to social media cancel culture morons.
And for Boston fans to be offended? Larry Bird was one of the greatest trash talkers of all-time (as well as hoops, of course)!! He used the word in question that Cade used the other night to taunt players, many of whom were African American..
But that was a long time ago… and no way even the Larry Bird (one of the best ever) would even go there if he was playing now. He would still talk trash as would MJ, Gary Payton, etc…
I will pushback slightly. Larry wanted to get under people’s skin. He may use a different choice of words today but I think he would find something else that would rattle an opponent to get him off his game.
Larry was no choir boy on the court. He wanted to kick your butt. 🙂
I see it the same way, different words. He would push every button and would do it mercilessly. I think I saw behind scenes (off court) with him trash talking other players (younger, maybe rookies)…. Wasn’t just what we saw on the court. Here is one story from Norm Nixon…
https://youtu.be/jAIJGu68c1c?is=eSe21SLP5xhrdBxI
Nats should appeal, stretching out his starts so that his suspension begins on the 12th, after he's pitched against the Astros and the Yankees. If I figure it correctly, then with the All-Star break, he'll be sitting out for 2 days.
It is a 7 game suspension so off days do not count. I believe a player has 24 hours to appeal so no one team can time these things for maximum competitive advantage.
It’s so nice that most the white shirtless troglodytes In the upper deck have chimed in on this Cavalli issue, poo-pooing what he said and did. But I would like to know what the English-as-a-first-language African-American players on the team have to say about it and the way Cavalli handled it. He has expressed regret for what he said, pleading ignorance, etc. But I haven’t read anywhere that he has said, “ I’m sorry for calling you boy, Wilsson.” When sh** like that comes out of your mouth, It’s your obligation as a man to eat your words.
Cavalli is from Oklahoma. And there was a little something back in 1921 called the ‘Tulsa Race Massacre’. With that history so close to home, how can anyone from Oklahoma play dumb about white on Black abuse, verbal or otherwise? We all know that the red/Trumpite states have undertaken to rewrite Black history. Did they give the Tulsa Race Massacre it’s due in Cavalli‘s Oklahoma history classes??
The issue here is not the trash talking; it’s not even the fight. The issue was directing a racist epithet at a Black player.
Very curious how they will fill in for his two starts. Less concerned about Mikolas missing a start…
Your pearl clutching worked, Mark.
?
I disagree strongly with the Cavalli and Mikolas suspensions. But I can only fight one war at a time and I am already outraged regarding the red card the USMNT received last night. Soccer's handling of red cards and MLBs handling of suspensions seem completely arbitrary and inconsistent to me at least, but maybe I am a little biased.
Interesting the punishments when looking at the plays in real time were not as severe. Cavalli wasn’t ejected and the red card came out after looking at the play in super slow motion
I think it’s a fair punishment. Cade shouldn’t have said what he said, and Contreras shouldn’t have charged the mound or thrown his helmet.
Time to move on.